Rule Understandings

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drumandfight's picture
Rule Understandings

This thread is where we can debate and bring up certain rules and interpretations of them.

There is a considerable source of help online via the FFG Deathwatch Forums where numerous veteran GMs and players of the game bring up their concerns, understandings and interpretations of both Core rules and House Rules. We should all take advantage of this when given the opportunity.

But, this is our game and our understanding is what matters most. So, this is the forum in which we will discuss it.

As it is coming up, I would like to discuss XP - particularly as a reward. I am already considering giving out XP at an accelerated pace due to the length PbP missions tend to take. However, the book advises giving out XP and renown for teams accomplishing their mission OBJECTIVES. Obviously, I will reward players for successfully completing objectives, but I feel that there is something to handing out XP after most successful battles as well.

As it stands, due to the nature of PbP I will NOT be rewarding XP upon mission completion. I will be awarding XP which can be immediately spent by the players upon reaching various "milestones" within the mission. Hint Hint - Expect one very soon.

Rustin will be awared more XP than the rest of the group for two reasons: 1) he is using a completely different book (Dark Heresy: Ascension) and the costs for his rank (which is Rank 9 by the way to even compete in the same arena as rank 1 Astartes) are silly high. It will also make sense due to his surviving in battle fields that Astartes are struggling in and learning first hand from the Demi Gods the other players represent. So, no crying when you see that the puny human has more XP than you for the same thing!


Edited by: drumandfight on 02/25/2014 - 22:29
drumandfight's picture

Going to put this here to clean up the main Deathwatch forum (as these are rules from RoB):

Deeds are found in the Rites of Battle Supplemental. Some cost XP and some are free while some come with only bonuses and some have bonuses and penalties. They are meant to help flesh out who your character was before joining the Deathwatch. There are deeds for Valor, deeds for Chapter, deeds for Specialty, Campaign deeds and even Deeds of disdain, should your PC been shamed or had some misfortune prior to coming to the Watch. It is also important to note that any Deeds you pick may have consequences in the types of missions you see and may directly influence my decision for certain campaigns - hopefully this will give you big role-playing opportunities.

If any of these categories sound like something worth pursuing, either leave a comment here or PM me and we can go into further detail. For now, I will post some of the Deeds that I think fit the team and see where we get. For the sake of time, I would like all Deeds and character reconfigurations to be worked out before the next Chapter starts. Once Chapter One begins all changes will be final.

Chapter Deeds

These Deeds are particular to a specific Chapter of the Adeptus
Astartes. The character must belong to the specific Chapter in
order to take the Deed associated with it. These Deeds have
more significance to the character of the Chapter. As such, these
are great role-playing elements that should be played up at every
opportunity. It is important to note that any Successor Chapter is
eligible to select a Deed that is available to the parent Chapter.

DDMW, there is a Black Templar Deed that is somewhat similar to the Ritual Duel Fighter but it doesn't, in my opinion, apply to Gunter's background at all based on conversations we have had and the brilliant background event you wrote for him. However, PM me if you want to view it.

Ritual Duel Fighter
Chapter: Dark Angels or Space Wolves
Cost: 100 xp (300 xp if you choose the result of the duel)
Instead of the non-martial ways to settle their differences,
when members of the Space Wolves and Dark Angels meet, one from each of their number must settle the honour duel of their two Chapters. These duels are common whenever these two Chapters meet for the first time in a given region or war zone. Often, the duellists chosen from each Chapter prefer to fight the duel unarmed, more closely echoing the legendary confrontation of the two Primarchs.

- Xerb, if this sounds like something you would be interested in let me know. There is a table of duel results that can be rolled. If not, no worries.

Keeper of Ways
Chapter: Ultramarines
Cost: 300xp
As an inheritor of Guilliman’s gene-seed, the Codex resonates with Ultramarines at a level that only they and their successors can understand. It is as much a part of their daily existence as the air that they breathe or the armour that they wear. No matter what situation they are in, they are able to find an application of the Codex that helps them master the difficulties and prevail. It is noticeable, however, when
another Chapter’s methods are being used that the genetics sons of Guilliman are reluctant to abandon the perfection of their Primarch’s work.

Effects: Apply all of the following changes to your character:
Skills: You may increase your Scholastic Lore (Codex Astartes)
Skill by +10.
Talents: You gain the Talented (Command) Talent.
Squad Mode: If the designated Leader of your Kill-team is slain or otherwise incapacitated (see page 232 CRB), you may assume command. If you do so, you may remove the Kill-team’s current Oath and administer a new Oath (all the normal requirements for Oaths still apply).

Campaign Deeds

The first two of these are deeds gained from specific actions within the Jericho Reach. As such, they are only applicable to Aisha - and since she has no Chapter Deeds to speak of, this seems a fair trade.

Crusade Reinforcement
Cost: 300xp
Following months of fighting on multiple planets and in the Jericho Reach, Daughters of Death detachments are being cycled back for debriefing. Due to their extensive knowledge of one of the major threats in the Jericho Reach, the Deathwatch has asked
that some of them be integrated into other teams under their command.
Effects: Apply all of the following changes to your character:
Talents: You gain the Talented (Forbidden Lore) Daemons or Xenos (player’s choice).

Acheros Salient: The Spectre of Vanity
Cost: 500xp
On Vanity, the combined forces of the mutants and the heretical witch covens of the Stigmartus and the Traitor Space Marine Legions have proven to be a difficult combination to dislodge from the planet’s surface. With only the forces of the Space Marines mustering on the surface, the fighting has been extraordinarily demanding. When there have been quieter moments, there have been reports of hearing the voices of fallen Battle-Brothers whisper to the living and sightings of the former inhabitants of Corulseim wandering the battlefields trying to collect more souls. Though devotion to the Emperor has never wavered, the presence on Vanity has left those who have served there a bit more unsettled than when they first landed.
Effects: Apply all of the following changes to your character:
Skills: You gain Forbidden Lore (Psykers) as an Advanced Skill.
Talents: You gain the Hatred (Chaos Space Marines) and Abhor the Witch Talents.
Insanity Points: You suffer 1d5 Insanity Points from hearing the whispers of fallen comrades.
Corruption Points: You suffer 1d10 Corruption Points (reduce the result by your Willpower bonus to a minimum of 1) for continual exposure to the debilitating effects of the warp.

Battle Damage
Cost: 300xp
Following a vicious assault by enemy forces, your armour was all but ruined by a salvo of enemy fire. Though you emerged victorious, you were forced to seek out your Chapter’s Master of the Forge and request a new suit of power armour. The Master of the Forge communed with the war-spirits of the Chapter’s remaining supply of power armour, and you were fitted with a suit that is well-matched to your particular
Effects: Apply all of the following changes to your character:
Gear: You may choose one additional history for your power armour.

Valorious Deeds

Space Marines are expected to be heroes. Even among them, however, there are actions that are above and beyond what they expect of themselves. These Deeds are meant to reflect a specific moment in time that defined their excellence in the field.

Cost: 400xp
This reminds me of Pax
In an assault on a fortified emplacement that was crucial to the overall mission’s success, your Sergeant was torn apart by incoming heavy weapons fire. In that moment of confusion, you immediately rallied the rest of the squad and stormed the
emplacement. Though the fighting was bloody and difficult, you and your squad turned the guns of the enemy on the other emplacements, clearing the way for the remainder
of the forces to secure it and roll to victory. For your part in the victory, you were promoted to Sergeant and earned recognition by the Chapter.
Skills: You gain Command as a trained Basic Skill.
Talents: You gain the Air of Authority Talent.
Honours: You are given the Iron Skull Honour for your innate leadership in this conflict. The Iron Skull Honour is normally reserved for Battle Brothers rank 4 or highers. This honor is recognized throughout the Imperial military as a sign of leadership distinguished in battle and may help the Battle Brother's influence when dealing with other Imperial personnel. However, a Battle Brother with this honor is always expected to lead from the front and by example, charging into the fray and being the example to their men.

No Quarter Given
Cost: 200xp
This reminds me of Yngvar; Xerb, also look into "Toe to Toe" on pg. 83 of Rites of Battle.
In the Jericho Reach, as in other zones of the Galaxy, there are plenty of other foes capable of fighting on par with the Space Marines. The implacable Warrior class of Tyranids, the formidable battlesuits of the Tau, and the Traitor Legions all possess the skills and abilities to test an individual Battle-Brother one-on-one. When squads meet squads, however, the melees that invariably ensue are bloody drawn-out affairs that push the limits of skill and endurance for all the engaged parties.
Characteristics: You gain +3 Weapon Skill.
Talents: You gain the Counter-Attack Talent.

Specialty Deeds

Many Space Marines are not standouts because of their overt heroics or their battle prowess, but because they understand their role in the armoured machine that is their Chapter. They know where their skills can be applied to the greatest effect and how to best aid the others in their squads. Many Battle- Brothers have been saved by the forethought and application of these talents in the field.

Protector of the Chapter
Speciality: Apothecary
Cost: 400 xp
Most Apothecaries normally work with the gene-seed of a single Chapter and are
able to perform tests on larger quantities of gene-seed. Those
who are a part of the Deathwatch, however, must constantly
develop new tests and screen for anomalies that wouldn’t be
found in their own Chapter.
Deathwatch protocol dictates that after every mission
and/or contact with a xenos race or Chaos-tainted being,
the Apothecaries must take samples and determine if his
Battle-Brothers are fit for duty. Both the protection of the
gene-seed and the mission are paramount duties and they are
occasionally directly at odds.
Apothecaries willingly bear this dual burden, for the sanctity
and preservation of the Chapter’s gene-seed is paramount.
Though it is a difficult position to be in, they have accepted
the relative dislike many of their Battle-Brothers have for
their constant testing. They know, however, that when they
are in need of medical aid in the field or on your table, there
is no other brother they want to see working on them.
Skills: You gain Scholastic Lore (Chymistry) as an Advanced Skill. If you already possess this skill, you may instead increase it by +10.
Talents: You gain the Talented (Medicae) Talent.
Kill Markers: If any Mission Objective involves the recovery or handling of Space Marine gene-seed, successful completion of this objective gains the Kill Team an addition +10 Kill Markers.

Right Place, Right Time
Speciality: Assault Marine
Cost: 400 xp
As an Assault Marine, you have become an expert pilot of
your jump pack and know how to make your presence felt. You
have developed a talent for using the element of surprise to your
advantage, suddenly appearing on the flank of enemy units and
providing a “shock and awe” factor that often routs the troops
you cannot outright kill. In your mind, engaging the enemy face
to face is the most honourable way to dispense the Emperor’s
justice. Though normally accompanied by a squad of fellow
Assault Marines, you understand how effective a well-placed solo
operative can be with the right support behind it. When your
Chapter answered the call for replacements on the Long Vigil,
you did not hesitate to uphold the honour of your Chapter.
Characteristics: The Assault Marine gains a +2 bonus to Initiative if he uses his Jump Pack during the first round of any combat. The initiative bonus lasts for the entire combat.
Skills: You may increase your Pilot (Personal) Skill by +10.

Precision Targeting
Speciality: Devastator
Cost: 200 xp
Some Space Marines have developed methods of locating
the weak points in vehicles and armour. Whether they alter
their own shooting method or placate the Machine Spirit, they
have the ability to exploit inherent flaws in the protection used
by the enemy and hunt them down with merciless precision.
Given the stagnation of the Acheros Crusade, these talents
have become a necessity on every battlefront, including the
more clandestine ones where the Deathwatch fight.
Combat: When firing a ranged weapon after taking the Aim action, you may choose to exchange the Ballistic Skill bonus from aiming for a +1 bonus to the weapon’s Penetration.

We Are All Alone
Speciality: Librarian
Cost: 400 xp
In many Chapters, Librarians are rarely called to lead squads
or small strike forces as they are so few of them relative to other
leaders in the rest of the Chapter. Librarians are well-suited to
support another leader, providing counsel and bolstering his
talents in commanding the Kill-team. Though they are fully
capable of leading themselves, the Deathwatch in the Jericho
Reach have found that using this resource as more of a failsafe
or second-in-command option has produced much better
results in the field.
Skills: You gain Command as an Advanced Skill.
Squad Mode: When the character is not leading, but is both within support range of the leader and in squad mode, he improves the support range of the Kill-team leader by one category regardless of his rank. In addition, should the designated leader of the Kill-team be incapacitated, killed, or otherwise removed from action, the Librarian is known to be the designated second-in-command.

Omnissiah's Calling
Speciality: Techmarine
Cost: 500 xp
Talents: You gain the Talented (Tech-Use) Talent.
Bionics: You gain one Exceptional-Craftsmanship Bionic of your choice.
Fixxx, this is the Deed that I thought was shit - which it was - but this is the Living Errata'd version of it. It is MUCH better.

drumandfight's picture

As well as our discussion on Demeanors which, up to now, have not been used at all:


Demeanor is something new to Deathwatch that I haven`t yet seen in other games. Not only does it affect your character`s personality, past, and their fundamental views on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, it also can be used to enhance the outcomes of certain situations - especially if it is role-played by you particularly well.

This is a good explanation of how to use your Demeanor In-Game:

Let’s take a moment to talk about Demeanors. These are a new mechanic for Deathwatch. Each Space Marine has two, one from their Chapter and one that is personal. When invoked, and role-played, they allow you to fake a Fate point expenditure and may even improve the rolls effect. They are intended to be invoked once, each, per story to give the player a chance to pull some super heroics out of their hat. If your demeanor is Stoic and you`re facing a Green Skin Horde charging towards you the player can say something Stoic sounding and then stand there gunning them down with a bonus to their rolls. It’s a nice add on to the game and makes Space Marines feel even more larger than life in my opinion.

I was going to allot a certain amount of Demeanor Points, akin to Action Points in D20 Modern, but I don`t think this will be necessary. Essentially, if the situation arises, for whatever reason, and you feel that your character has a golden opportunity to flex their influence given a certain demeanor, state so in the Out-of-Character (OOC) thread and we will go from there. For example, if you are in the middle of a heated argument between a Planetary Lord Governor and the Admiral of an Imperial Fleet in high orbit and you have the Gregarious Demeanor, state that you are about to use it in the OOC thread, then post some silver-tongued dialogue and win over one of the sides.

But the point I am trying to make is do not abuse this. I will have the ultimate say so as to whether or not Demeanor is going to fly and I will most likely be lenient, but at least have a very good reason, and don`t be the person who tries this shit at every single opportunity.

I am going to treat a use of Demeanor exactly like I treat "Cinematic Mode." If you trigger your demeanor for a particular situation, it will more-than-likely result in a badass auto-success of some sort or another (depending on the situation); however, Demeanor usage will be limited to one time per "milestone." In other words, once you trigger your demeanor (personal or chapter) you cannot do so again until a milestone in the game has been reached (basically when FPs are restored and XP/renown is awarded).

Fixxxer's picture

Regarding accelerated XP, I'm ambivalent, so whatever you decide is cool with me. I'll say this, though. The PbP format making it take longer for us to level up is really not that big a deal in my mind. The longest running game on the forums right now is Ancestral Burdens, which was been running pretty much since we started running PbP. Years and years. We've gained 2 levels since then, and I can't say that it feels like it's taken too long to do so.

deadDMwalking's picture

Regarding Righteous Fury, I suggest giving it to enemies that have Fate Points, and Hordes with a Magnitude under 10 (ie, 9 or lower). In the case of enemies, I suggest confirmation rolls.

This will ensure enemies are never blithely ignored, maintain some tension, and avoid the potential excesses if give universally (like a 4d10 Horde scoring an average of 1 every 2 rounds...

drumandfight's picture

deadDMwalking wrote:

Regarding Righteous Fury, I suggest giving it to enemies that have Fate Points, and Hordes with a Magnitude under 10 (ie, 9 or lower). In the case of enemies, I suggest confirmation rolls.

This will ensure enemies are never blithely ignored, maintain some tension, and avoid the potential excesses if give universally (like a 4d10 Horde scoring an average of 1 every 2 rounds...

Yeah, this is exactly what I was going to do (hordes). Megahordes (especially Orks) have the potential to already cause devastating damage, and as such do not need RF. The Fate Point thing is a little bit tricky. Normally enemies that are Touched by the Fates already have the potential to cause massive damage. It leaves Elite enemies somewhat lacking. I think I am going to allow elites to have RF (or whatever name their God allows it to go by) as long as they are not in large groupings. In this case, the Meganobs and Alpha boys have the potential to score when you encounter them one-on-one or in small clusters.

All enemies will have to confirm their RF attacks; such is it that the Emperor is more powerful than their lame ass Gods.

Edit: DDMW proposed a good alternative to critical attacks from enemies. I will post it up shortly.

drumandfight's picture

HEALING: The overly-complicated world thereof.

As a house rule, I am proposing having normal healing checks take at least 5-10 min of narrative time. For one, this will represent the difficulty an Apothecary has tearing through ceramite armor and comprehensively checking wounds. Also, it adds a little spice into time-sensitive missions. Do we stop and heal up or do we charge into the base? Let me know what you think about that. Here is a comprehensive understanding of healing as it relates to the various damaged states:

Example Marine: TB:10 wounds:22

1: Normal "natural" healing
Lightly wounded (defined on page 262) character heals 1 damage a day. (with bed rest heals TB)

Heavily wounded (p. 262) character heals 1 damage a week. (with complete rest heals TB)
Critical wounded (p. 262) character cannot heal naturally, with medical treatment will remove 1 point of crit damage a week.

Once a character's wounds reach the next threshold (through healing) he immediately becomes that level. Example marine has 1 point of crit damage, is treated for 1 week at medical facility and removes 1 point of crit damage. He is now Heavily damaged. He focuses completely on rest (for a space marine this means light training vs. normal training I'd imagine) and heals 10 wounds at the end of the week. Now he is lightly wounded. Focusing on rest the character takes 2 more days to heal the remaining 12 wounds. Total healing time from -1 crit damage: 2 weeks and 2 days.

2: First aid is a 1 time attempt to mitigate damage sustained, to that point, in combat.

a: When a character has suffered damage, any character with the medicae skill can attempt to use first aid. If the test is succesful the wounded party heals a number of wounds equal to the healer's Int Bonus modified by the healer's abilities. UNLESS the character is Heavily or Critically damaged, then the wounded party heals only 1 wound modified by the healer's abilities. If failed, the wounded marine heals ZERO damage.

b: Any wounds not healed by a First Aid attempt (succseful or not) count as Treated and may NOT be healed again with First Aid UNTIL the character heals those wounds naturally (See #1).

Example: Our marine takes 12 points of damage from a chaos dude, then he is healed for 10 damage. The last 2 wounds remain and cannot be healed by First Aid until the character heals them naturally (one day of natural w/rest or 2 days w/o rest for this character). Though the other 20 wounds may be healed via First Aid again, if the character takes more damage.

c: Certain equipment and talents can modify the wounded threshold for the healer. For instance a character using a Netharcium counts a wounded space marine as Lightly Wounded as long as the character has taken equal to or less than 3 times his TB in damage. But it does not change the threshold for heavy or crit; if the marine is 1 point above 3xTB and now in normal crit threshold, the character is Critically Wounded. These abilities generally do not stack (so no 2xTB + 3xTB = 5xTB) .

Example: Our marine has taken 20 wounds. The character counts as Heavily damaged for natural healing, but an apothecary with a Netharcium can treat the character with First Aid as if he was Lightly Wounded as 3x our marine's TB equals 30, which is more than he has suffered. If the apothecary didn't have a netharcium the wounded marine would only have healed 1 wound, as he was normally Heavily Wounded.

3: Certain talents, such as Hardy or Autosanguine, change the behavior of natural healing.

a: Both Hardy and Autosanguine improve natural healing, but they do not affect First Aid attempts (your toughness does not improve a surgeon's ability to use a suture needle).

b: Autosanguine allows a character to always naturally heal (at a faster rate even), even overiding the normal no healing in crit rule.

c: Hardy allows nearly the same, but when critically damaged the character will not heal naturally (a character can not naturally heal when in crit) unless recieving medical treatment (then the character heals as if he was Lightly Damaged). This is because the character is not "counted as Lightly wounded" but when he heals, he does so as if Lightly Wounded, meaning if he cannot heal he gains no benefit.

Crimison's picture

I'm curious how that post will affect how I heal in the middle of combat. With this house rule, will it take me ++++ rounds to heal someone? This would basically pull me out of combat and rend me non-functional if I'm trying to heal during combat.

Or does this rule apply to those who are trying to heal themselves without any formal training?

drumandfight's picture

Enemies and NPC Criticals: AKA Awesome Criticals

DDMW proposed a really nice solution to the NPC using righteous fury (or their version of it). It is no longer the same as when an Astartes scores RF. Enemies criticals will not explode on top of one another (1d10+1d10+1d10, as RF can do). I will post the important parts of our PM discussion here. No, we did not verbally attack nor berate each other. We save that for bedtime.

How an NPC triggers a Critical Attack:

In general, in other systems, criticals tend to tie with 'capability'. Someone who is a master swordsman should be more likely to score a critical hit than a novice. It might happen - but it should be more rare. Note that with a damage roll, the maximum value is just as likely to be rolled no matter who does the rolling. Righteous Fury doesn't distinguish between novices and masters at all - it treats them entirely the same. That's alright when you're a team of badass space marines, but it may not always be appropriate.

So how can you create 'criticals' without tying them directly to the damage rolls? Rather than turning a good damage roll into a great damage roll, you want a critical to turn a 'shitty' damage roll into a 'good' damage roll to reward the character for an exceptional success. So instead of tying it to the damage roll, you can tie it to the attack roll. To a degree, exceptional success is already rewarded by degrees of success - you don't want to say '1' = critical because a 1 already has other benefits - like being harder to parry or dodge. So what else is there?

The most elegant solution is actually 'doubles'. Here's how it works... Let's say you have a 75 in your relevant attribute (master swordsman). Your chance of a success if 75%; your chance of a 'critical' success is (11, 22, 33, 44, 55, 66) 6%. Now look at your novice swordsman (30% in your relevant attribute). You only have a 30% chance of a hit, and only a 2% chance of a critical (11, 22). Right off the bat it helps make 'elites' more deadly because they're more likely to have a high attribute, and thus more likely to result in a double that's a success. If you have less than a 10% chance of success; no criticals for you.

The Resulting Damage:
Adding an Extra Die of Damage: If the original attack was 1d10+7, it becomes 2d10+7. Thus, without a critical, your minimum of 8 maximum of 17 increases to minimum of 9, maximum of 27. Average increases from 12 to 18. Besides a bigger increase in to total damage, this also allows the possibility of extremely high damage.
Advantage: Unlike Righteous Fury, this would not continue to explode, creating a true 'maximum value'. While this can make damage 'as good as Righteous Fury', those times will be rare. With Righteous Fury, once your 1st roll is a 10, you have a 10% chance of another 10; ie, 10% chance of doing 20 damage. With this, you only have a 1% chance of rolling 20 damage; you're much more likely to be 'in the middle'.
Disadvantage: It's possible to have a critical hit that does no damage (ie, a 2 isn't a good damage roll on a d10; a 2 (1+1) is a TERRIBLE roll on a critical. On the other hand, the odds of getting a 2 for damage are only 1%, so it isn't likely to happen. Keep in mind, this is also an enemy-specific rule, so if they do do shitty damage, who cares? The Emperor was in your favor more than their blasphemous God(s).

Enemies and NPCs will be limited to one critical hit per round. Your base Genestealer is capable of delivering 5 melee attacks in a single round - if it were able to score a critical hit on all 5 of those attacks, a single Genestealer would have the potential of severely fucking up your day. That would be potentially game breaking.

drumandfight's picture

Crimison wrote:

I'm curious how that post will affect how I heal in the middle of combat. With this house rule, will it take me ++++ rounds to heal someone? This would basically pull me out of combat and rend me non-functional if I'm trying to heal during combat.

Or does this rule apply to those who are trying to heal themselves without any formal training?

Well, healing is a full round action anyways, right? So it will already take 1 round to heal lightly damaged wounds. The Narthecium description specifically states that it doesn't need to get through armor, so I think this would be for an Astartes without a Narthecium attempting to heal themselves or others. You should still be able to handle business relatively quickly granted you pass the skill check.

I am going to say that attempting to heal HEAVILY damaged Marines DURING combat should take 2 rounds to complete. Does that seem fair to everyone?

Crimison's picture

drumandfight wrote:

Example: Our marine has taken 20 wounds. The character counts as Heavily damaged for natural healing, but an apothecary with a Netharcium can treat the character with First Aid as if he was Lightly Wounded as 3x our marine's TB equals 30, which is more than he has suffered. If the apothecary didn't have a netharcium the wounded marine would only have healed 1 wound, as he was normally Heavily Wounded.

If my patient is heavily damaged and I use my narthecium to heal and his wounds is less than 3x the marina's TB will it take me 1 round to administer healing or 2?

I was reading the Narthecium and I think we've been doing it wrong. With the Narthecium I should be doubling the amount of damage that I heal.
The Narthecium: pg 173
The tool of an Apothecary's trade, a narthecium contains implements specially designed for Space Marine physiology and for preforming first aid without having to remove the patient's power armour. It also comprises various counterseptics, skin patches, transfusions and other compounts engineered for the space marine's physiology and several stasis tubes for storing recovered gene-seed.
A narthecium grants a +20 bonus to medicae tests made on a space Marine patient. It also raises the thereshold at which the patient is considered lightly damaged to 3 timse his toughness bonus, and doubles the amount of damage healed by first aid. A narthecium also holds ten doges of any one drug. The drug must be acquired separately.

So what I take from this is there shouldn't be a penalty for "digging through the armor" the narthecium already takes that into account. Now if you want to apply a time limit to people who dont have one I don't see why not. I'm not sure if I agree with heavily damaged taking 1 extra round to heal but I'd like to see some other people weigh in on this.
I should be adding a +20 when healing space marines (sorry rustin)
I should be doubling my total healed

*specifically with a narthecium

edit: oops I see you wrote saying the narthecium takes the armor into account. My question about heavily damaged and how many rounds it takes still stands.

drumandfight's picture

If my patient is heavily damaged and I use my narthecium to heal and his wounds is less than 3x the marina's TB

If his wounds are less than 3x his TB, then technically he is not considered heavily damaged (the perks of using a Narthecium).

For now, let's treat lightly wounded as a full round action, and heavily wounded as two or more depending on the circumstances. It still seems a little silly to me for any type of medical treatment to only take 1 round (5 narrative seconds). Even for Astartes that seems ludicrously fast. But let's play with it and see how it goes.

You will get Medicae +20 (skill) +10 (Diagnostor Helmet) +20 (Narthecium on Astartes); that, by the way, is damn near the +60 maximum threshold for skill tests.

drumandfight's picture

This is found in Honor the Chapter and applies to all of you. It is a passive solo-mode ability that you may find useful.

Type: Passive/Solo-mode
Required Rank: 1
Effects: When fighting alongside the more celebrated Chapters, some Space Marines are driven to strive all the harder to prove their worth. When the eyes of history are upon him, the Battle-Brother is able to perform epic deeds. Once per combat, upon using a Fate Point, the player may roll a d10. On a result of 10, the Fate Point is immediately returned to him.
Improvement: Every second subsequent rank the Battle-Brother attains (i.e, Ranks 2, 4, 6 and 8), the chances of the regaining a Fate Point increases by 1. For example, at Rank 5 the character’s Fate Points are returned on the roll of 8+.

drumandfight's picture

Tauros Venator

Type: Wheeled Vehicle
Front: 25, Side: 20, Rear: 20*
Structural Integrity: 25
Manoeverability: +10
Crusing Speed: 90kph
Tactical: 17m
Crew: 1 Driver, 1 Gunner (Turret)
Carry Capacity: None
Size: Enormous (6)**
Vehicle Traits: Open Topped, Wheeled Vehicle, Galvanic Motor.

Galvanic Motor - A vehicle fitted with these is able to ignore the first two "Drive Damaged" critical results before it starts to succumb.

May take one turret mounted weapon from the following:
- 2 Multi Lasers (Twin Linked; Use stats from OW, maybe tweak a bit at discretion)
- 2 Las Cannons (Twin Linked)

And may come with:
- 2 Hunter Killer Missile
- 3 Uses of Smoke Launchers

* My logic here is that the front of the vehicle will be a little better as thats where the brunt of the firepower is likely to be going. Side armour however, you have a very clear shot at the driver so I have made this weaker. Additionally I have kept the rear armour as low since on the venator this is where the ammo is stored.
** Size wise it is a little longer than a Sentinel but narrower and taller, this is why I have called it Enormous (same as a Sentinel or Krootox). Next size category up is for Battle Tanks and Greater Daemons which would be way too large.

drumandfight's picture

I would like everyone's thoughts on the new (changed) combat mechanic that FFG has introduced into all of their more recent game lines (Black Crusade, Only War, Dark Heresy 2 Beta) and whether or not you would want to incorporate it into our game.

And as bad as "changing the combat mechanic" sounds, it really is not that bad. In our sit-down Dark Heresy game, Mruozu has gone ahead and adapted the rule to the game and it has been working out fine.

Here is the technical change:

- The following attack actions are half actions.
- Single shot attacks are +10 to hit
- Semi Auto attacks are +0 to hit
- Fully Auto attacks are -10 to hit

It is the opposite philosophy that is currently employed by Deathwatch. Essentially Deathwatch shooting is contrary to actualy real-life shooting physics. It follows the, "If I fire more bullets I have a better chance to hit" philosophy. When, in real life, firing a weapon at a much more rapid pace decreases accuracy significantly.

The new system rewards lining up single shots and allows much more aiming possibilities. It also is more rewarding to those firing full auto the more their personal skill goes up. Currently, even with a weak BS, unloading on full auto gains a significant advantage (+20) to hit.

However, it can always be argued that as Astartes (save for Rustin), you never need to brace a weapon, are fluent in the functions of all weapons and firing on full auto wouldn't matter to you. Basically, both sides and systems have their merit. I am just wondering what you all think and if you are good with how it is, or if you would even want to try out the new system.

deadDMwalking's picture

If they are 'half-actions', what does it mean if you use a 'full-action' to light up some mo-fos?

Mac_tonite's picture

I like the idea , slow controlled fire being more accurate but what is the benefit of semi or full auto with the altered mechanic? More damage based on the degrees of success? If that's the case, it sounds good. We can take slow controlled shots with a +10 to our accuracy, or go semi or full auto and take a hit to accuracy in exchange for multiple rounds hitting. Basically the option of going standard, accurate, or damage mode.

drumandfight's picture

As half actions it means you can still take a half action aim, or full action aim the round before.

But there is no benefit for full auto other than possibly hitting a target multiple times, if your BS skill is good enough. +20 for full auto is a bit buffed at the moment.

deadDMwalking's picture

Right now, per the rules, semi-auto burst and full-auto burst require a full round action. I'm not sure why you'd want to change them to half actions...

drumandfight's picture

Yes, I understand that.

Semi Auto essentially stays the same since you can still aim (half action) and then semi auto fire (half action). And the same rules apply regarding not being able to make two of the same half actions in one turn.

Full Auto fire always grants a +20% chance to hit something (which also means hitting them more times). As it stands, the option to full auto fire is almost a no brainer and leaves no reason to ever take another option if there was a choice. The new systems favor accuracy over hosing down a target. A half action for full auto fire in exchange for a -10 to hit is a much more balanced system.

This is why I am asking everyone's opinion. I personally favor the new system.

deadDMwalking's picture

I understand where you're coming from as far as 'realism'. I'm not sure that the ultimate game effects of the proposed changes actually make it more realistic. I'm trying to understand it. My impression is that by reducing the 'accuracy' (which again, I agree is realistic) will make it so a full-auto will do less damage against a horde (less accuracy equals fewer degrees of success). I also think that the reason Full-Auto works the way it does now is the assumption that you'll adjust while shooting to improve accuracy. A 'leg hit' is followed by leg, body, arm, head. By reducing the bonus, you'll reduce the number of hits to a single target, thus making more 'damaging' shots (such as head) more rare. Effectively, you're imposing a -30% chance to hit over the current rules, which means you're effectively reducing the number of hits by 3 degrees of success. 5 hits becomes 2 hits (leg, leg) instead of leg, leg, body, arm, head. This is a pretty significant reduction in number of hits from an automatic weapon...

My thinking is that while a Fully-Automatic weapon probably should be harder to hit with (realism), if you hit the number of hits should be pretty significant. Ie, instead of 1 +1 for every degree of success, maybe it should be 1/2 of your Rate of Fire... Or maybe on fully-auto, you should roll each attack separately (with the penalty). If a Heavy Bolter is making 5 attacks at BS 45 (55 - 10 for full auto), you'll probably get 2 hits.

So while I agree that the aiming should be harder with an automatic weapon, I'm concerned about the ultimate effect to number of hits from an automatic weapon, particularly against hordes, but to a lesser extent against individual targets.

drumandfight's picture

I am not sold that the hit-chart represetns an adjustment in accuracy as much as it does the weapon jumping around as multiple rounds are pushed down the barrel. But I think that is semantics - it could probably be equally argued to either degree. The fact is, multiple shots result in multiple hits on a body with the right amount of skill (and a good roll).

In regards to less horde damage, I would not necessarily agree. Horde magnitude, enemy size, range and talents all still come into play. Take Sarlock, for example. He routinely fires on enemies at over 100 to hit. Sometimes it has been like <104 to hit - literally he could only miss on a jam. The new system balances this out to something more manageable - <84. Chances are he will still get all of his hits on a horde, but perhaps now the incentive to bring out the signature heavy flamer, as opposed to the heavy bolter, is more viable.

Granted, on average, horde hits will probably go down, but a horde without a large magnitude modifier is hardly a threat to Astartes anyways. Decisions on what type of attack to make will be more tactical/strategic given the situation. It would make Rustin more of a scout-sniper. As he usually opts for single fire or semi auto, his shots would hit more often - and called shots would hit more often when sniping on single fire.

At the end of the day, it is up to you troops. I would like to hear what you think. Brett has some good concerns. In the other game systems, I have yet to have this new combat mechanic hamstring us.

mruozu's picture

I can see the positives and negatives from both, but personally the Only War system makes the most sense in the 40k universe. Sarlock would lose a bit of umph in his attacks, but it wouldn't drastically reduce my ability. With range, size, hatred, and other factors, I can still get a pretty good hit on things. In addition, if I use my half action to aim, then it's only a +0, and I lose the potential for 2 hits. Not a terribly big deal.

I'd rather us get to some more teamwork stuff anyway and tactics instead of me pulping away enemies in one shot. I mean in the training mission I took down two of those elites with two shots...

It'd give me more incentive to try new weapons on other missions as well.

Either way, I'm fine with whichever system.

drumandfight's picture

Mruozu wrote:
. I'd rather us get to some more teamwork stuff anyway and tactics instead of me pulping away enemies in one shot. I mean in the training mission I took down two of those elites with two shots...

You damn near did this at the Ork camp too, dude. The Alpha who was butchering the civs was pulped, then one of the meganobs was pulped. You would have got the second meganob as well had he not gone out of range - which then made that fight infinitely more interesting. Three Marines squaring off against this guy in melee, sticking krak grenades in his armor. That was something special.

mruozu's picture

Yeah I want more of those situations. Not just stand and shoot, stand and shoot, stand and shoot.

Hydrako's picture

I'm good with trying out the new rule set. If we don't like it we can always go back. It's all about experimenting. That's what I told my ex anyway...

drumandfight's picture

Xerb, Mac, Fix... opinions?

mruozu's picture

I'll experiment with your face Hydrako.

Hydrako's picture

With or on...?

Mac_tonite's picture

I like the idea. I say yeah.

Xerb. The Wolfman.
Xerb. The Wolfman.'s picture

I like the idea although it will have the least effect on my attacks, but could enhance certain enemy's attacks on me.

I'm also for continued deposition of krak grenades into the bodily orifices of certain elite enemies.

drumandfight's picture

All right, it looks like we have a clear majority in favor of at least trying the new combat mechanics. The main changes are as I have described - lock them away into your memory. Single, Semi and Full Auto are all half actions. Single +10, Semi +0, Full Auto -10 to hit.

This is just a test run and the new combat mechanic will go into effect after this current combat. Hugs and kisses.