# Chapter 2: How Do They Rise Up? (OOC)

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Talanall

Celestial Spiders 1 and 4 vs. Large slitherweb's stench

I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 10, 4 = 14.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 7, 4 = 11.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall

Web, Celestial Spider #2 vs. Slitherweb 4

I rolled 1d20+3, the result is 14, 3 = 17.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall

Celestial Spiders #1 and #2, melee.

I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 19, 2 = 21.
I rolled 1d4-2, the result is 3, -2 = 1.
I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 20, 2 = 22.
I rolled 1d4-2, the result is 1, -2 = -1.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall

Crit confirm. Fort saves and Str damage

I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 3, 2 = 5.
I rolled 1d4-2, the result is 2, -2 = 0.
I rolled 1d20+6, the result is 19, 6 = 25.
I rolled 1d20+6, the result is 12, 6 = 18.
I rolled 1d3, the result is 2 = 2.
I rolled 1d3, the result is 1 = 1.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Obsidian_Spoon

When it gets back to Kaarys' turn, what would I need to do to get him into a flanking position with the large slitherweb?

Talanall

Currently, the only valid flanking backstop available to him is Johten. Kaarys would need to move to the square immediately NE of Kisasi's horse, and NW of the Large slitherweb. That's the approximate limit of his movement if he wants to be set up to attack in this round. If he doesn't care about that, he can double-move around to a position where he'd flank against Leland, and where he'd also stand a pretty good chance of flanking against Gazini or even Henrik.

There's a pretty good chance that Johten will have moved by the time Kaarys's turn comes around, though; he just got beaten on pretty badly, and may not want to stick around for another round. I suspect that Leland's probably also going to move away from the slitherweb for the same reason.

It may be that Henrik will move into a position that will make it easier for Kaarys to set up to flank. Of course, it may also be the case that he'll move into a position that will make it harder or impossible.

Another possibility would be for Kaarys to move into position somewhere in melee range of the slitherweb, call out for someone else to flank opposite him, and then ready an action to attack the slitherweb as soon as he has a flanking backstop. Kisasi probably is the best candidate for this, since he's mounted. Henrik's stubby dwarf legs limit his mobility and make it challenging for him to get into position without taking AoOs because he has to cut corners through the slitherweb's threatened area.

Basically, right now Kaarys only sees one flanking partner for a position that is valid right this second and that he can reach in time to attack. But he's got enough time before his turn that it really isn't possible for me to say that he'll have a flank available when it's his turn to act.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Dafyd

Leland attempts to break the grapple, step back 5 feet, and draw a wand.

I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 20, 2 = 22.
Talanall

Opposed Grapple

I rolled 1d20-8, the result is 14, -8 = 6.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall

Swarm vs. Slitherweb #1

I rolled 1d6, the result is 4 = 4.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall

Fall

I rolled 1d6, the result is 6 = 6.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Darker

Which one is the one that is dead/dying? Seems like it might be a good target for a grab and run.

Talanall

#1. It's off to the ENE, represented by a blackened disk. On the other side of all that undergrowth, plus boggy/water squares.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Fixxxer

Johten will attempt to escape the grapple. The roll below accounts for his Str damage, but not for him being sickened, as I'm not 100% certain whether the condition applies to a grapple check (I assume it does).

Grapple Check
I rolled 1d20+9, the result is 16, 9 = 25.
Talanall

That's sufficient to get free, even with the sickened condition. Joe has a move action still available if he wants to use it for something, although his positioning is such that he'll take an AoO if he moves.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Fixxxer

If a 5ft step is possible, he'll do that, moving to the southeast.

Talanall

Difficult terrain makes that impossible as a 5-ft. step of the kind that precludes A0O. Moving into heavy undergrowth costs 4 squares of movement. Since he's got six squares of movement at his disposal, he's certainly capable of making that movement, but he'll still have to eat an AoO to do it.

That may be better than standing still, though. The AoO will suffer a 30% miss chance, since Johten is standing in undergrowth already, plus the attack roll still has to hit him. And even if it does, Big Momma still has to beat an opposed grapple check against his reduced, but still formidable, grapple bonus.

I don't think he wants to be standing next to this monster when its turn comes around again, and going SE is better than going due south because that means the creature can't go after both him AND Leland. So disengaging from melee with an AoO probably is about as good as he's going to get.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

MinusInnocence

I keep imagining the spiders in my space are also riding the horse with me and throwing up out of their spider mouths. They have wobbly cookie monster eyes and I laugh and laugh.

Talanall

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Fixxxer

Fair enough. Stepping away and suffering an AoO it is, then.

Talanall

On the bright side, this is it, so far as the slitherweb's AoOs go for the round. Unless it has the Combat Reflexes feat, anyway.

I rolled 1d100.hits(31), the result is 70 = 1 vs. 31.
I rolled 1d20+7, the result is 12, 7 = 19.
I rolled 1d4+5, the result is 4, 5 = 9.
I rolled 1d20+12, the result is 7, 12 = 19.
I rolled 1d4+5, the result is 3, 5 = 8.
I rolled 1d20+9, the result is 12, 9 = 21.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall

Well. That's unfortunate. I liked Joe.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Fixxxer

Well, fuck that smelly vagina monster.

Cronono

To confirm, none of the monsters except the large one are on the ground, or even that one?

Talanall

Other than the large one, there is one that just fell out of the canopy. Probably dying, if not dead from the fall.

One has descended, and is now in a boggy/shallow water square, probably intending to hide in the depths. It's bleeding, and in all likelihood it will die no matter what happens.

That leaves one slitherweb, #4, which is still in the canopy but is entangled and is being harassed by Gazini's spiders.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Who is Zephyranthes? I can't find him in the Character Sheets or Dramatis Personae and I don't remember him.

Edit - Nevermind - It appears to be Leland's horse.

Talanall

Correct. Sir Zephyranthes was Leland's horse.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

MinusInnocence

I thought mine would die first for sure. Guess he shouldn't have named it

Talanall

Meanwhile, Glitterhoof back in the Mereflow Valley is busy siring a legion of evil horses bent on world conquest.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono

Can Vandersrike hide in a square with a tree?

Talanall

TL;DR: Yes, evidently, because Hide requires "cover" and not "total cover" as a prerequisite for a Hide check.

Full version:
Oh, geez. This is complicated.

The answer is yes. Probably. Provided that Vandersrike isn't being observed. If he's not being observed, he can hide normally so long as there is cover or concealment between him and the creature that is doing the observation. At present, he's standing in a square that affords him normal concealment (20%). So he can assume himself to be in satisfaction of that criterion, at least for most creatures.

Observer conditions that may invalidate that assumption:

• blindsight
• lifesense
• something like the preceding two that I don't know about
• tremorsense

Blindsight and lifesense would pinpoint his location in such fashion that he would receive a cover bonus to AC (because of the tree's status as a physical obstacle) but would not be considered "hidden" or "concealed." This probably also would apply to similar non-Core effects like "mindsight," which shows up in at least one splatbook that I possess.

Tremorsense would pinpoint his location. He certainly still would be considered "concealed" or "hidden" with respect to ranged attacks. With respect to melee attacks, he would be so considered with respect to opponents without the Blind Fight feat. Against opponents with said feat, he would not enjoy any perks with regard to making his own melee attacks, but they still would be impaired in their ability to attack him, because cover and concealment still would apply.

In terms of whether it's sufficient to inhabit a square that grants you a cover bonus in order to execute a Hide check, I am less certain, but I am inclined to say that it is sufficient, because the rules don't specify a particular degree of cover; rather, they merely require that you have some degree of cover or concealment, and that your opponent must lack any other means to know of your presence.

Should Vandersrike wish to move from one square to another without breaking from his hidden status, he must satisfy the following conditions. He must

1. have cover or concealment in the destination square,
2. have cover or concealment in the origin square,
3. be unobserved, or
4. as a standard action, succeed at a Bluff check opposed by the Sense Motive check of each potential observer, and then move.

The only surefire way to satisfy Condition #3 is for him to make the entirety of his movement under conditions of total cover or total concealment.

Regardless, he can move a number of feet equal to his ranks in the Hide skill (round down in increments of 5 ft.).

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono

Vandersrike will yell out:

"Tribesman Leland, fall back!"

Then he will move N, N, NE. All three squares have trees. He will attempt to be as sneaky as possible. Rolling hide/move silent with no bonus/penalty.

Hide/Move Silently
I rolled 1d20+18, the result is 9, 18 = 27.
I rolled 1d20+15, the result is 18, 15 = 33.
Talanall

Let's also have a Fort save from him.

I'll put in Vandersrike's action ahead of Henrik's. By an oversight I failed to change the turn callout from Johten to Henrik; it's the dwarf's turn next. I know DDMW's traveling, so there may be a short wait. Given the stakes in this combat, I'd prefer not to treat Henrik as an NPC.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall

Make that TWO Fort saves.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Henrik steps back into the space he occupied a moment before, his bearded face inches away from the creature's mouth. "Ach, that's a bad business. If you live long enough, you'll see everyone you care about die. Nothing for it but to revenge yourself on their killers." Henrik tries to do exactly that as he swings his magical axe toward the beast, his shield held firmly between them.

Attack, Damage, Confirmation, Critical Damage, Miss-chance (if applicable)
I rolled 1d20+6, the result is 17, 6 = 23.
I rolled 1d10+3, the result is 4, 3 = 7.
I rolled 1d20+6, the result is 3, 6 = 9.
I rolled 2d10+6, the result is 7, 1, 6 = 14.
I rolled 1d100, the result is 87 = 87.
Talanall

That's a hit. Nice.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono

Vandersrike Fort

I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 1, 2 = 3.
I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 16, 2 = 18.
Darker

Swarbrick, knowing that staying within tentacle range of a large slitherweb is very bad for your health, urges his mount forward as he draws a dagger with his off-hand. He stops behind Leland (just south) to give the druid a chance to move behind him and escape the tentacles if he can act fast enough.

He flings his dagger and reaches for another one.

I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 11, 2 = 13.
I rolled 1d4+4, the result is 4, 4 = 8.
Obsidian_Spoon

How does the horse corpse affect movement?

Talanall

It doesn't.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Obsidian_Spoon

Kaary's would like to delay until just before the large slither. He'll yell out, "I need one of you to set up a flank on this bitch! Fix your positioning!"

Darker

Not still waiting on me, right?

MinusInnocence

Kisasi will try again to cut through the webbing still entangling his horse. Then he will urge the mount one space northeast. If Kaarys can make it to where Big Joe was standing with a double move, we can flank together next turn.

I'll also make a Ride check to let the horse get its full attack action against the large slitherweb.

Bastard sword versus webs; Ride check (fight with warhorse); 2 hooves versus large slitherweb, bite versus large slitherweb
I rolled 1d20+5, the result is 19, 5 = 24.
I rolled 1d10+2, the result is 3, 2 = 5.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 18, 4 = 22.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 13, 4 = 17.
I rolled 1d4+3, the result is 3, 3 = 6.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 9, 4 = 13.
I rolled 1d4+3, the result is 3, 3 = 6.
I rolled 1d20-1, the result is 12, -1 = 11.
I rolled 1d3+1, the result is 3, 1 = 4.
Talanall

Darker wrote:

Not still waiting on me, right?

No. However, I did want to clarify how it can be that Swarbrick is using that dagger with the hand that is not holding his sword. Is that right? I'm inquiring because Swar readied his shield along with the longsword at the start of this combat, and has kept it readied throughout the subsequent rounds.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Darker

Well damn, I thought about looking back but then got lazy with it and figured that I only readied just the weapon with my move action. Being that is the case, he'll keep both the sword and shield out and ready an action to attack if the thing moves toward him. His horse will burn a move action.

Actually, second thought... this thing has reached right? So its unlikely Swarbrick can ready an effective attack since he can't ready a move and an attack. But can his horse make one move and then ready a move while Swarbrick readies an attack? This is confusing.

Or can the horse move, and Swarbrick delay and then split their initiative?

MinusInnocence

Whether or not you and your horse can each ready an action in a round might be a separate issue from how you might possibly communicate such a plan to the horse.

Talanall

Darker wrote:

Well damn, I thought about looking back but then got lazy with it and figured that I only readied just the weapon with my move action. Being that is the case, he'll keep both the sword and shield out and ready an action to attack if the thing moves toward him. His horse will burn a move action.

Noted.

Quote:

Actually, second thought... this thing has reached right? So its unlikely Swarbrick can ready an effective attack since he can't ready a move and an attack. But can his horse make one move and then ready a move while Swarbrick readies an attack? This is confusing.

Or can the horse move, and Swarbrick delay and then split their initiative?

There's some question in my mind about whether you can direct a mount to ready actions, because you're filtering that direction through the Ride and mount mechanics, which sometimes treat you and the mount as one entity and sometimes treat you as individuals. As you say, it's confusing.

For the sake of not giving all of us migraines, I'm just going to say that the horse does what you tell it to, when you tell it to. So if you wanted to ready an action that involved Swar having his mount move him close enough to to slice, I'd allow it (but you wouldn't be allowed to have the mount also attack). But against an opponent with reach, he and/or the mount would provoke AoO; it's not a 5-foot step--can't be, because (if I understand what you're doing), you want Swarbrick to move his horse due south of Leland first.

In this case, the question is simpler to handle because the slitherweb only has 5-foot reach. The template doesn't confer reach, and the base creature doesn't have it because although it's Large, it's Large (long) rather than Large (tall) and isn't an exception case. If it were Huge, it would have reach even as Huge (long), but less than if it were Huge (tall).

So really, Swarbrick can just move as described and ready an action to attack if the monster comes within his reach. And for that matter, if he succeeds on a Ride check, he could have his mount make an attack, too.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Darker

We will do this: So really, Swarbrick can just move as described and ready an action to attack if the monster comes within his reach. And for that matter, if he succeeds on a Ride check, he could have his mount make an attack, too.

Ride
I rolled 1d20+3, the result is 17, 3 = 20.
Talanall

Okay.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall

As a side note, I might not rule this way if your mount wasn't war-trained. The doubled price of a warhorse versus its non-war counterpart mostly is justified by the notion that combat training makes it so that being on the mount isn't actually worse than being on the ground.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold