Chapter 2: How Do They Rise Up? (OOC)

1656 posts / 0 new
Last post
Cronono
Cronono's picture

That's convenient. Is it correct to say that five foot step to the SE would not provoke? If so, Vandersrike will do that.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

It would provoke an AoO, because he would be moving into difficult terrain. He can't make a 5-ft. step into difficult terrain, and in fact a diagonal movement into heavy undergrowth counts as SIX squares of movement.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono
Cronono's picture

Vandersrike won't do it then, but if its the first movement in a round wouldn't it just be five squares of movement?

Talanall
Talanall's picture

The underlying rule is that diagonal movement alternates in cost: five feet for the first square of movement, then ten for the next, and so on until the character or creature no longer has sufficient movement to enter a new square.

Certain squares contain "difficult terrain," which costs double the usual to move into (or more). Regular undergrowth is a good example; it costs two squares to move into, or three if you move diagonally. But there are other kinds. Shallow bogs, dense rubble, ice sheets, natural cavern floors, and a few special cases all behave pretty similarly in terms of their effects on movement.

There are also some kinds of difficult terrain that are even more hindersome than the above. Heavy undergrowth features prominently, here, but there are also deep bogs. These cost 4 squares to move into in a straight line, or six when you move diagonally, because they are twice as hard to move into as "normal" difficult terrain.

And then finally, there are some spells that temporarily make an area into difficult terrain, or which exacerbate existing difficulty. Entangle is a good example, since it's actually in use right now, but there are quite a few others. Yellow squares inside of that area of effect cost four squares to enter (six diagonally), and orange ones cost eight to enter (twelve diagonally). That's independent of the fact that the vegetation also will try to grab hold of you and stop you from moving.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

When you get into really extreme examples like the heavy undergrowth under the effect of an entangle spell, with (possibly) some other effect like a sleet storm on top of that, the cost to enter a square could be as high as 24 squares of movement. Most PCs only have twelve to sixteen squares of movement at their disposal, via a double move action, but there's a special rule for occasions like this, which basically gives you an option to spend a full-round action to move five feet, provoking AoO in the process. So it's pretty hard to manufacture circumstances where movement is just utterly impossible.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Does Vandersrike want to move at all, or is he just going to stick in one place? Theoretically, he could attempt a full attack routine, if he's either staying where he is or taking only a 5-foot step, since he has attacks left over--he only sacrificed one to the task of getting free of the bothrian's tentacle. There are a couple of valid squares he could use for that, which is why I'm asking.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono
Cronono's picture

Are the couple squares where he is and one step SW?

Talanall
Talanall's picture

He can validly make a 5-foot step N, NE, or SW. The first two would break him out of immediate melee contact with the bothrian.

It could take a 5-foot step to follow him on its turn, unless someone else steps into the square Vandersrike currently occupies. Leland certainly could do that. As a druid of level 2+, though, he could just as easily walk S, S, SE, E, NE. Mundane flora doesn't hinder his movement, and this path would make it difficult for the bothrian to run away without taking an AoO from him or getting stuck in the entangle effect that's still running. Technically, he'd also be flanking the bothrian with Swarbrick. I wouldn't normally spell out something like this, but Dafyd may have forgotten that Leland has the woodland stride ability. Leland, however, would not have forgotten. It's not clear to me that the other PCs would know unless Leland habitually makes a showcase of the fact that brush and brambles don't grab his feet, although I guess Armund necessarily would know because he's also a druid and also has woodland stride.

Whether it would do so is another question, since it's been injured a bit at this point and is starting to get a little isolated. Chasing Vandersrike would be a really good way to cut itself off from the rest of its little squad.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono
Cronono's picture

I misunderstood - I thought we were talking about squares where he can make a full attack.

From a tactical perspective, we have multiple rogue-like characters and we need to flank more. For purposes of encouraging folks who are able to do so to do so, Vandersrike will five foot step to the SW.

Can he continue a full attack after breaking a grapple and five foot stepping, or no?

Talanall
Talanall's picture

He can make a full attack right where he is. He also can take a 5-ft. step before, after, or during a full attack.

As to whether he can continue a full attack after breaking a grapple, I'm inclined to say yes. Per the core rules, an attempt at breaking a grapple is done "in place of making an attack," and although I think that's probably meant to be interpreted within the scope of how it works if a character has multiple attacks because of a high BAB, I'm not really interested in quibbling over it when a character has been built, at some trouble by the player, to have multiple natural attacks. We'll say that Vandersrike is giving up one of his claw attacks, since those are his primary natural weapons.

So regardless of whether he moves N, NE, or SW or stays where he is, he can full attack if he wishes, minus one of his claw attacks.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono
Cronono's picture

SW, then finish the full attack.

Claw, Bite, Tail
I rolled 1d20+7, the result is 12, 7 = 19.
I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 17, 2 = 19.
I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 11, 2 = 13.
Talanall
Talanall's picture

Oh, close. But not close enough.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono
Cronono's picture

These guys are tough! I have to find one of those Amulets of Mighty Fists.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

I'm pleased with how the template is working out. Of course this is only a single playtest of it, but each of these creatures looks like it's giving appropriate value per dollar for its CR.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

deadDMwalking
deadDMwalking's picture

Time to focus fire.

In unrelated news, I have been drinking. I am in Kansas for the next three days and I can get a beer here that I like that is not available in Tennessee. It might be because I haven't had dinner or it might be why I like this beer, but I am feeling it. Leinenkugel's Honey Weiss.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

I'm not a fan of honey-flavored beers. If I'm going to get drunk on fermented bee vomit, I prefer a dry mead. Non-mellified weiss beers are nice, though. They smell like bubble gum. Or sometimes like Froot Loops.

The Leinenkugel Honey Weiss is has shown up on my local grocer's shelves, but I think that's partly because my grocer has a decent beer selection as a way to offset for local laws that prohibit them from selling anything with alcohol content greater than about 5% by volume. Leinenkugel is a mass-marketed brand, so it pops up once in a while down here.

Most of the time, honeyed weiss/witbier/hefeweizen beers show up as seasonal brews for the summer or early fall. If there's a microbrewery or craft brewery near you (and there probably are several, since you live near a major city), you probably can find examples that are somewhat better than the Leinenkugel, if you keep your eyes peeled. There's a microbrewer/wood-fired pizza place in town here that turns them out pretty regularly, and I live on the ass end of nowhere.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

On his action, Armund will attempt to break the grapple, seeming disgusted that the thing has laid an appendage upon him. "Get over here!" he'll yell to his companions as he exerts himself. "Cut them down!"

In lieu of other instructions, Sally will continue to attack the bothrian she's been harassing

Grapple check
I rolled 1d20+3, the result is 18, 3 = 21.
Talanall
Talanall's picture

Opposed

I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 11, 4 = 15.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Nice. With the -16 that I forgot add piled onto that, Armund will be a free man. Let's see what Leland does first, though.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

deadDMwalking
deadDMwalking's picture

Talanall wrote:

I'm not a fan of honey-flavored beers. If I'm going to get drunk on fermented bee vomit, I prefer a dry mead. Non-mellified weiss beers are nice, though. They smell like bubble gum. Or sometimes like Froot Loops.

What's funny to me is that even though it says it is a honey beer, I don't think it tastes like one. Lately the Leinenkugel's do show up in the market, but it is always a seasonal taste and mostly a 'shandy' which I do not care for at all. Their 'beer' flavored beer is also pretty good. In Iowa City it was available at all the bars and wasn't expensive - basically it cost the same as Bud Light and sometimes Pabst Blue Ribbon (but that was sometimes practically free) and is certainly better than the competition at that price range. These days, outside of bars that regularly serve it, it is on par with a premium beer like Bass.

Henrik would totally drink it if he could.

Darker

I find the horrors which are inflicted upon my weisse beers to be abominations worse than these bothrian. I got hooked on it in Munich drinking Franziskaner Hefe-Weissbier and Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier. Then I come back to the US to look for Hefeweizen and find they all get pissed in with citrus or other fruits. Why mix my beer with sugar juice? Why oh why?

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Yeah, I'm not a fan of shandy, either. Leinenkugel's got a seasonal pomegranate shandy that my wife likes, and I've got some in the fridge right now. But I think it's insipid.

For whatever reason, I find it easier to get witbieren than hefeweizen. Hoegaarden is almost always available here, and in my opinion it's a decent mass-market brand, better than Blue Moon. Those are my usual picks if I'm looking for a wheat ale, because the other reliably available option is from St. Arnold, and the level of hops in all their stuff is kind of excessive.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Darker

Witbieren is also a favorite of mine and Hoegaarden is indeed okay to fill that need.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Goose Island makes a decent wheat beer, too. I think it's a sort of Americanized witbier or hefeweizen. I like Hoegaarden better.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

I'm a stout drinker 90% of the time. But I also dislike the flavor of coffee. These two facts haven't really been a problem until fairly recently. It seems like the craze of trying to pack as much hops as is physically possible into the IPAs is over, but now the hipsters are effing up the stouts with various flavors of coffee. Which has me pissed. It means that most of the time when I go out, I end up drinking Guinness. Which is fine, it's a very consistent, inoffensive beer. But I can't really experiment that often without stepping on some coffee stout landmine.

Darker

I like coffee AND like a good stout on occasion (especially when eating certain meals), but despise the coffee stouts. WTF, people? Stop messing with beer. Beer flavor good. Stop screwing with it.

Cronono
Cronono's picture

I can't drink beer anymore. I tried lagers and ales for a while, but now I feel awful afterward. I basically just stick to single malts.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

I think the hop-worship is still a thing. It's less absurd than it used to be, granted. But if I want over-hopped beer, I'm still spoiled for choices even though Heineken is cheap, disgusting, and readily available anywhere I go.

Like you, I gravitate toward stouts/porters. There's an excellent one, the Korova Milk Porter, coming out of Louisiana now, produced by Gnarly Barley. Buquet, Champagne Beverage, Mockler Beverage, Schilling, and Southern Eagle all distribute their brews, and I know that at least one of these has a footprint as far out as Kansas. Literature about this particular brew mentions coffee and chocolate notes in the flavor profile, but that's not the result of any kind of additive. It's just the malt, and it doesn't really taste like coffee or chocolate. They're starting to make it in an Imperial variant, too, which has me very excited. Also, frankly, I like it that someone's making a stout that is an homage to A Clockwork Orange.

Also worth mentioning is Turbodog. Abita puts this one out, and I suppose that it's technically an extremely dark English Ale. I think it comes about as close to being a stout as is possible. Abita's also starting to produce limited brews of actual stout, now, most of which are only available in select locations inside Louisiana. I'm cautiously hopeful that they'll run into enough success with them to lead them to move one into production for package distribution. That's what happened with their Andygator (a very strong Helles Doppel, ~8% ABV), which is now a year-round package offering.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Oh, you're a Scotch man? I don't drink much of it anymore, because my preference is for Laphroaig or some similarly peaty whisky, and the wife says it makes me smell like a cadaver. I'm not allowed to drink it anywhere within smelling distance of her.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono
Cronono's picture

I had a client who wanted to drink Laphroaig with me. We went out and ordered it neat. I know he saw my face when I tasted the peat. I'll drink it, but it caught me way off-guard and I'll never forget his face looking at my face at Jacobs steakhouse in Toronto.

I tend to get Macallen if available.

Darker

Ugh, she is right Laphroaig is foul stuff. Give me a good lowland scotch. If I wanted peaty whiskey, I'd drink out of a smoker's water pan or put a few cigarettes out in my scotch before drinking it.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

I'm not sure how one would drink good Scotch, other than neat. And I realize that Laphroaig and similarly peaty Islay malts are not for everyone. I like Laphroaig because of the smoke, rather than in spite of it. Also I like the sweet, sort of briny notes underneath it. But then again my olfaction is generally very good, which I guess is what really led me to get into wine in a semi-serious way.

In all candor, I guess I should admit that Laphroaig was my introduction to whisky in general. When my late father decided it was time for his eldest boy to learn how to take a shot of hard liquor, he didn't fuck around with training wheels. We skipped straight to 18-year-old Laphroiag, which I don't think you can get anymore. I think I was 17, and I had never had any sort of alcohol prior to this. Once I could breathe again, he thumped me on the back and told me that I'd never have to worry about whether I could take a shot like a man, regardless of what was in the shot. He was . . . not wrong.

Anyway, it's really an acquired taste. I like it, but I might not be fond of it if I'd been introduced to whisky through something with a less bombastic flavor profile.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono
Cronono's picture

Looks like it is available if you're feeling nostalgic.

https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/b/40/laphroaig-single-malt-scotch-whisky

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Hmm. Yeah, I'm sure there are still bottles of the 18 year hanging around even though it's discontinued. But I don't think I'm down to spend ~$300 US on a bottle of Scotch. Nostalgia is all very well, but the bottle of quarter cask I've been working on since 2012 or so is perfectly acceptable.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Or maybe the 18 was a replacement for the 15? I could have my years mixed up.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Hmm, nope. The Whiskey Exchange just made a boo-boo. Anyway, I doubt I could tell the difference between the 15 and the 18 if someone put a dram of each in front of me and challenged me to do it blind.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Darker

My first introduction to whiskey was thanks to Jim and Jack, which led me to a 10-year stint of "I don't like whiskey." Later, I attended a few whiskey tastings with friends with the midrange, non-peaty scotches like Glenlivet which lead me to realize, I don't dislike whiskey and scotch -- I dislike cheap whiskey aged in charred oak. The tastings, which allowed me to compare through 10-15 different whiskeys at a time (mostly Irish, Scottish, and American) allowed me to key in on that peaty or charred flavor is what I really didn't like. Now, there's a good chance if I had started with a nice peaty scotch instead of a cheap mass-produced whiskey, I might be a fan of the peat. But the flavor all reminds me of the char taste of Jim and Jack, which is a turn off.

Dafyd
Dafyd's picture

Leland moves S, S, SE, E, NE, and he attacks White 6, flanking with Swarbrick.

I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 12, 4 = 16.
I rolled 1d8+1, the result is 6, 1 = 7.
Talanall
Talanall's picture

Sally vs. #3

concealment, attack, dmg, trip, resist
I rolled 1d100, the result is 73 = 73.
I rolled 1d20+3, the result is 1, 3 = 4.
I rolled 1d6+1, the result is 6, 1 = 7.
I rolled 1d20+1, the result is 14, 1 = 15.
I rolled 1d20+3, the result is 2, 3 = 5.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Rolls

White #4, Atk vs. Leland with grapple and constrict
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 13, 4 = 17.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 1, 3 = 4.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 5, 4 = 9.
I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 1, 2 = 3.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 3, 3 = 6.
White #3, bite vs. Leland (grappled, no Dex mod to AC)
I rolled 1d20-1, the result is 3, -1 = 2.
I rolled 1d6+1, the result is 1, 1 = 2.
White #3 vs. Sally
I rolled 1d100, the result is 27 = 27.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 3, 4 = 7.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 2, 3 = 5.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 15, 4 = 19.
I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 10, 2 = 12.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 1, 3 = 4.
White #3 vs. Sally, bite
I rolled 1d100, the result is 42 = 42.
I rolled 1d20-1, the result is 7, -1 = 6.
I rolled 1d6+1, the result is 2, 1 = 3.
White #5 vs. Random (1--Kisasi; 2--Horse), with grapple and constrict
I rolled 1d2, the result is 2 = 2.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 18, 4 = 22.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 2, 3 = 5.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 8, 4 = 12.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 3, 4 = 7.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 1, 3 = 4.
White #5 vs. Horse, bite
I rolled 1d20-1, the result is 17, -1 = 16.
I rolled 1d6+1, the result is 6, 1 = 7.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Leland's grappled; again, this is the variety where the bothrian is not grappled, yielding a -16 net penalty to its subsequent grapple checks.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Obsidian_Spoon
Obsidian_Spoon's picture

Kaarys in unwilling to attempt to move into the space between White 4 and White 1 while slimed, so he's just going to make a hindered attempt to full attack White 4 from where he is.

Rapier, handaxe, dmg in order, conceal in order.
I rolled 1d20+1, the result is 9, 1 = 10.
I rolled 1d20+1, the result is 5, 1 = 6.
I rolled 1d6+1, the result is 1, 1 = 2.
I rolled 1d6, the result is 2 = 2.
I rolled 1d100, the result is 90 = 90.
I rolled 1d100, the result is 76 = 76.
Obsidian_Spoon
Obsidian_Spoon's picture

Next round, spoodge ant, next round...

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Hahahah! Spooge ant.

Rolls.

White #2 vs. Random (1--Kisasi; 2--Horse), tentacle with grapple/resist/constrict
I rolled 1d2, the result is 1 = 1.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 1, 4 = 5.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 3, 3 = 6.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 1, 4 = 5.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 2, 4 = 6.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 1, 3 = 4.
White #2 vs. Kisasi, bite
I rolled 1d20-1, the result is 9, -1 = 8.
I rolled 1d6+1, the result is 5, 1 = 6.
White #2 vs. Random (1--Kisasi; 2--Horse); tentacle with grapple/resist/constrict
I rolled 1d2, the result is 1 = 1.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 9, 4 = 13.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 3, 3 = 6.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 19, 4 = 23.
I rolled 1d20+2, the result is 16, 2 = 18.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 3, 3 = 6.
White #2 vs. Kisasi
I rolled 1d20-1, the result is 11, -1 = 10.
I rolled 1d6+1, the result is 3, 1 = 4.
White #4 vs. Armund, tentacle with grapple/resist/constrict
I rolled 1d100, the result is 79 = 79.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 8, 4 = 12.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 1, 3 = 4.
I rolled 1d20+4, the result is 19, 4 = 23.
I rolled 1d20+3, the result is 14, 3 = 17.
I rolled 1d3+3, the result is 2, 3 = 5.
White #4 vs. Armund, bite
I rolled 1d100, the result is 98 = 98.
I rolled 1d20-1, the result is 18, -1 = 17.
I rolled 1d6+1, the result is 3, 1 = 4.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Darker

Is Leland still considered to be threatening? I want to know if a move SW and SE will put Swarbrick into a flanking position.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

No, he can't threaten while he's grappled. If not for that going SW, SE would be a valid movement to create a flanking situation, costing only 20 feet out of Swarbrick's available movement.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

As a reminder, Swarbrick has already made a successful sunder attack against its tentacle. That wasn't enough to sever the limb by itself, but it did damage it.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Cronono
Cronono's picture

Correct me if I'm forgetting something, but Vandersrike is not grappled, yes?

Talanall
Talanall's picture

You're correct. I missed editing out that line of the OOC status report. That was my mistake, and it's fixed now.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Darker

Is Vandersrike planning on moving into a flanking position or getting to safety? Swarbrick will move and ready an action to attack if Vandersrike wants to move SW and SE to flank (and also ready an action for Swarbrick to move).

Pages