Questions, Comments, Criticisms

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MinusInnocence
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Questions, Comments, Criticisms

Since I've locked the other threads, this is open for everyone to ask stuff that pertains to everybody or just sound off about the game.

drumandfight
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Where is the clitoris?

drumandfight
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Where is the clitoris?

deadDMwalking
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drumandfight
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deadDMwalking wrote:

http://xkcd.com/685/

Haha, flawless victory.

Talanall
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Starting Friday and extending through Thursday of next week, I will be somewhat out of touch. Just posting this so people don't wonder where I went.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

MinusInnocence
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That's actually perfect. I was thinking of starting the game next Friday.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

MinusInnocence
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In light of recent issues some people have been experiencing with the die roller, and because many of you spoke favorably of the more narrative-driven style of the previous incarnation of this campaign, for the purposes of 2EE I will be using Invisible Castle and rolling all the dice myself. For those who are unfamiliar, or for new players (more on that in a moment), here's what you can expect.

The game, like most others here at the Archive, will feature an IC and OOC thread. Outside of encounters, the game has a mostly conversational flow in the IC thread between cut scenes that lead to encounters, narrated by me. Once an encounter begins, we move to the OOC thread and everyone posts their actions (so far, so good). But at this point, everyone waits for me to roll dice, calculate results and compile everything in a long IC thread, with die rolls hyperlinked in the descriptive text. Then I'll post an updated battlegrid, if relevant, along with everyone's initiative count, current hit points and condition updates, etc.

One advantage to this method is that it consolidates all the information you need to process the previous round of combat in one place instead of needing to dig around in the OOC thread. 2EE currently has six players and I'm expecting more, and that's a lot of folks typing back and forth. So, ultimately, only I really need to worry about the cross-chatter. Another benefit is that it preserves the narrative feel of the game. One of the things most people like best about this campaign is the vividly described setting with rich characters and all the colorful details. There's no reason descriptions of combat or other exciting scenarios shouldn't be the same way, and there's also no reason why you can't mouse over a description of Thunk cutting a goblin in two with his greatsword and click on a link to see the critical hit confirmation and damage total for yourself, all in one convenient place.

Anyway, about new players. I've asked around a bit. One player, I've known since we were in 7th grade, almost as long as I've been gaming. He relocated recently a million miles away from anyone he knows that plays, and is very, very interested in 2EE and play by post gaming in general. He's also something of a budding game designer himself, so hopefully he'll stick around and maybe submit some content.

That's all I've got for now. Oh, there's a new thread up about character traits, and the Important Stuff thread has been updated. Check it out.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

MinusInnocence
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I am happy to announce that my friend from my home group and our very own Crimison will be joining 2EE.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

MinusInnocence
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OK guys, here's my sitrep. I'm waiting on a first draft of a character sheet from Obsidian Spoon. I need a response to my PM to Board Rider and Crimison about their character sheets.

I need an up or down confirmation from Fixxxer, Darker, Talanall, DDMW and drumandfight whether or not they want to use hero points. Everyone on that list except for Darker also needs to give me an updated sheet with their chosen background traits. If you don't want to use hero points, your updated sheet must reflect one additional feat selection. If you do, submitting a character background in the appropriate stickied thread will let you start the game with two points instead of one.

Crimison, Obsidian Spoon and Board Rider can submit a character description to that thread when they get the green light on the final draft of their sheets.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

drumandfight
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I am using Hero Points and definitely taking the Tunnel Fighter Coldstone Mountain trait. I am still on the fence about my second trait.

I would still like to go over Jugg's PC sheet in detail with you soon so I can make sure that how I built him three years ago is still viable.

Darker

I'm not using hero points but I don't have a problem with anyone else using them. I'm taking Diehard instead.

Talanall
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I am using hero points. Will provide an updated sheet shortly.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Fixxxer
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Hero points for me as well. I thought I already sent you confirmation about my trait selections, but my last message isn't showing in the PM log, so I guess it didn't get through (or I never did it, even though I remember doing so, meaning that my mental walls are finally entering their final stages of erosion. May God have mercy on your souls.)

Regardless, I'll handle this posthaste.

MinusInnocence
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Fixxxer, Darker: Ready.
Obsidian Spoon: Rough Draft.
Crimison, drumandfight, Board Rider: Revisions.
deadDMWalking, Talanall: Traits.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

drumandfight
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Tunnel Fighter and City Dweller fit well with Jugg's past.

Unless I am missing anything, he should be good to go.

Are we starting right where we left off? Same everything - no changes except the traits and hero points?

MinusInnocence
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I think so.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

MinusInnocence
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Everybody but Crimison, Obsidian Spoon and Board Rider are ready to rock and roll.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Darker

My subscriptions to threads aren't emailing anymore, others may have the same problem.... I don't know if you have more direct means of contacting them, but you might want to try them.

Fixxxer
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Crimison will be working on her revisions this evening after work. Should have them to you no later than 9pm (EST).

Board Rider
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Sorry for the delay everyone. I have responded to MI's PM. The short story is I will have time this weekend to get the ball rolling for Gideon. Between moving, separating, medical issues and a slew of work issues I have been MIA of late.

Again, I apologize for the hold up. If MI is agreeable to waiting I will be ready this weekend.

MinusInnocence
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No worries! You aren't the only hold-out.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

drumandfight
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I love you, Craig. Get back in my life, dog. You will not regret it. Kill.

Fixxxer
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Truth.

deadDMwalking
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I'll take Killer Instinct as my General Trait. I think I'm ready other than a couple of minor edits (including my Wisdom bonus on skills, for instance).

Crimison
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Hey sorry some bad long work days and Matt kinda threw me for a loop. Heh. Working on revisions and should have in the next couple of hours.

MinusInnocence
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Obsidian Spoon: Rough draft.
Board Rider: Revisions.

Everyone else is locked and loaded.

I'd like to take this chance to thank KC for joining us and welcoming her to 2EE. I'm ecstatic that everyone is still interested in picking up where we left off after all this time, and that they speak so fondly of it that others are eager to join in on the fun. I've been very fortunate to not have to issue an open call to fill seats, it's a great compliment for a DM.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

drumandfight
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It is great to have you back. We have all been long hoping you would make a return, and it is really cool that it is happening.

I have been eager to play Jugg again for a long time. Thanks for that.

Crimison
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Glad to be on board :D

Fixxxer
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I've very much wanted to continue as Feruq, and I imagine everyone else felt the same way about their characters. We even kept the 2E board active for more than a year during your hiatus, just in case you came back on the fly. Jeff cried every night. That might have been because of the bedwetting, but I like to think it was because he missed you.

deadDMwalking
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I thought he covered that very eloquently. "It was the pain of separation. And the pain of insertion. Mostly insertion."

drumandfight
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Thank you, Brett, for ACTUALLY LISTENING TO ME. Upvote.

Unlike some freckle faced sexual deviants.

Fixxxer
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I'd look around the room, wondering who Jeff was talking about... but that's assuming I heard him say something in the first place.

drumandfight
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You know you can hear me, because if you ever stopped hearing me the grief that would follow would be spoken of for millenia. This is simple deduction.

We are connected at the Peni.

Board Rider
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Trying to get Gideon updated. What was the starting point buy?

MinusInnocence
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Gideon has 25 points to distribute.

It should be noted that average NPCs who do not possess levels in PC classes (including monsters who only possess racial hit dice) have three points to distribute. This typically results in an array of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9 and 8 or three 11s and three 10s.

NPCS with at least one level in a PC class have 15 points to distribute, which are usually arranged as 15, 14, 13, 12, 10 and 8.

So, with traits, hero points (or a bonus feat) and ten more points for stats, heroes are among the most naturally gifted people in the world. Usually, ordinary folks can sense this disparity in power, and defer to heroes in nearly all matters that don't directly pertain to them. The people of Haranshire are unique in this regard, because while they are charmed by daring deeds and heroic self-sacrifice, they live in a region where weird, scary things happen all the time; and an unusually high percentage of the local population has exceptional combat ability, wilderness and survival skills or mastery of the arcane.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Board Rider
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MI I sent you a PM for character review.

drumandfight
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Haranshire feels like my home away from home.

Fixxxer
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Still stoked about this.

drumandfight
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This plane is still in the air, right?

MinusInnocence
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Yes, sorry. I was waiting to hear back from our eighth player, but he's dropped out. I'll have an update soon.

Everyone else is ready to go!

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Crimison
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*excited* Waiting for this game to start. <3

drumandfight
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It has been far too long since Jugg has killed anything.

Remember the drinking contest with Thunk that he lost? Good times.

MinusInnocence
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Jugg didn't lose. I don't think Thunk got to drink even one mug.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

drumandfight
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AMEN.

MinusInnocence
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I have updated the Important Stuff sticky to include a reference to psionic focus under the brief discussion of concentration checks in Pathfinder. In v3.5, it was a function of the Concentration skill, which no longer exists; the houserule clarifies that although it is not technically a true skill or ability check but rather a caster or manifester level check, it is still legal in this specific case to take 10 or 20 on the concentration check to gain psionic focus.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Talanall
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It has recently come to my attention that, at least per the Pathfinder Core Rules FAQ from Paizo, wizards who advance into a prestige class do not gain additional spells known when they receive a level that grants an additional level of arcane spellcasting progression. Here is a sample of the text that sparked the ruling:

PathfinderSRD wrote:
At the indicated levels, an arcane archer gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting.

Paizo went on to write an FAQ comment on the matter here: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9nib, making it clear that this is indeed their stance on the issue--if a wizard like Dalvar gains a level in a prestige class that advances his arcane spellcasting, he gains caster level and spell slots per day, but he does NOT gain the usual 2 new spells for his spellbook. He is obliged to acquire any new spells on his own, paying the normal costs in time and money to add them to his spellbook (along with any costs necessary to gain access to copies of those spells in the first place).

Is this something you're going to go along with? It sounds disastrous, especially once the party's adventures take them into the Night Below. I have trouble thinking that Dalvar is going to have access to many outside sources of spells after that.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Darker

It's been so long since I've played a wizard that leveled.... can he just plan ahead and purchase some scrolls that he wants to learn when he levels up? I don't even remember if learning spells from scrolls is a thing in pathfinder... or 3.5. Or 3.0... but we did it in 2nd ed all the time.

Talanall
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Learning spells from scrolls is a thing in Pathfinder, 3.5 and 3.0. It costs gold to do it over and above the cost of the scrolls, which is supposed to represent the character's expenses for fancy ink and the like. At least in Pathfinder, it seems very much an abstraction designed to keep players and DMs from having to worry too much about it, but depending on how MI adjudicates the matter, it could still be a difficulty.

Getting access to spells via scroll is the least good option available, because it is many times more costly than paying for access to a reasonably friendly NPC's spellbook.

The whole thing about leveling up in a prestige class being a case where the wizard doesn't learn new spells is a major change versus 3.5, where the wizard most definitely DOES get new spells that way. If I had known about it, I'd have built Dalvar in an entirely different fashion, avoiding both a multiclass and a plan to take levels in a prestige class.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

MinusInnocence
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You are correct. One of the many class features a member of a Prestige Class loses as compared to taking another level of Wizard is that he or she does not gain two free spells in his or her spellbook. I will say that there will be no real shortage of captured spellbooks, spellcasters who will not necessarily attack Dalvar on sight, or scrolls in the Underdark, but this does not sound satisfactory to you. As you said, whether you are copying a spell from an NPC's spellbook or transcribing a spell from a magic scroll, you have to pay for the privilege: the scroll costs money, or is at least worth money (and thus eats into your share of loot) if you found it and did not purchase it yourself; and unless you are VERY friendly with the spellcaster in question, he or she will likely charge a fee, which the PRD spitballs at 50% of whatever you are already spending on ink and all that jazz.

I would be open to Dalvar taking a feat once he starts advancing in a PrC to allow him to continue gaining two spells per level as though he had taken a level in Wizard.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Talanall
Talanall's picture

It is not that it's unsatisfactory, or that I don't trust you to be fair, as it is that I began play with an incorrect expectation of the number of spells Dalvar would obtain, and the degree of control he would exercise as to what spells those would be. I don't see that you have any particular reason to cause Dalvar difficulties just for the sake of being difficult, but neither do I expect that you will tailor the spellbooks of NPCs he encounters so that they will have the particular spells that he wants, when he wants them.

A feat like you propose could mitigate the issue somewhat, but if I am negotiating a custom feat to deal with the issue, I'd prefer to negotiate for a feat that makes sense whether he enters a prestige class or not.

Just for the sake of argument, something like this:

Arcane Researcher
Benefit:
When you gain a level of spellcasting as a wizard or witch, you learn two more free spells than you normally would for that level, copying or storing them in your spellbook or familiar without expending extra time or money. These extra spells are learned even when you advance in a class which grants improvement to your spellcasting progression (additional caster level, spells per day, etc.) without granting the normal free spells per level, such as when you advance in a prestige class. The spells may be of any level that you are able to cast, including any new spell levels gained from your advancement, so long as they belong to the spell list for the class for which you selected this feat.
Normal: When you gain a level of spellcasting as a wizard or witch, you gain two new spells of up to the highest level you can cast. Advancing in a prestige class does not grant knowledge of new spells from the sorcerer/wizard or witch spell lists, unless the prestige class specifically designates otherwise.
Special: You can select this feat using a wizard's bonus feat at 5th, 10th, 15th, or 20th level. You can choose this feat more than once, but it must apply to your advancement in a different class each time.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

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