A Lapse In Judgment (OOC)

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Fixxxer
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Feruq wouldn't really think that burning half our reliable charges of healing would be worth the payoff.

deadDMwalking
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I honestly don't think it'll come to that. Heal checks are a thing, and I have a few first level spell slots I could use for that. But what talky man say? I'm cool with Dalvar's plan if he has one. It seemed to me that he wanted to go to the keep and be back for Lytern, and those don't seem to be compatible.

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

We do want to deal with Broken Spire while the defenders are reported to be in a position where we have a good opening. But politically, we also want to be present for Lytern's swearing in if we can, as it might help grease the wheels in future dealings we have with locals to be officially associated with him as a ruler, or even -gods willing- deputized in some fashion.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Dalvar's plan is to head to the Reflecting Pool starting in the morning, get directions to Broken Spire Keep, and then proceed to Broken Spire Keep with all due haste. Then scout as much as is feasible with the tail end of daylight, make a cold camp, and around dawn try to infiltrate the keep just before whoever is on watch is likely due to change shifts, so that people will be tired in addition to sick from any success the poisoning might have met with.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

If he can't be back to be first in line to swear fealty to the new Count, that's too bad. He'll just have to come back with a sack of heads, all freshly harvested from some of the Count's most prominent enemies and apologize for being late.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Talanall
Talanall's picture

He would be murdering these people even if the Count were dead, frankly.

If we finish in circumstances where pouring magic into the effort to cover miles might make a difference, that's fine. We'll pour magic into the effort to cover miles after we're pretty sure we don't need that magic to keep our insides from being on our outsides.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

deadDMwalking
deadDMwalking's picture

That sounds like a plan, then. If there are any first level druid spells that Dalvar would find helpful for his plan, let Argus know.

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

I added a short entry under the Plot Hooks section of the "Important Stuff" sticky re: the Phoenix Guard. They are led by a woman named Issha, who claims they are part of the same religious order of knights Deventer the paladin belonged to before he was slain by Carlanis. They came to retrieve his body, which Semheis refused because the paladin had already been interred in a mausoleum called the Hall of Heroes in Milborne. They caved pretty quick, but only because that's not why they really came to Haranshire.

When you saw them again at Kuiper's farm (The night the party met Seralis the half-elf and less than 24 hours before Gideon murdered him in the Thornwood), Issha confirmed they were actually hunting vampires they had tracked from Quigsby. If she was right, Kuiper guessed the best place for them to hide would be in the Hardlow Woods, which everyone in Haranshire believes is haunted (so almost no one goes there). They rode out the next morning and no one has seen or heard from them since (it's been less than a week but they had horses and should have no trouble crossing great distances relatively quickly).

Re: druid spells, there is a spell that might be helpful for Argus later. If the Circle gives directions from the Reflecting Pool to the effect of, "Follow our tracks from here to the Keep" or something vague like that, there is a spell called Deadeye's Lore in Ultimate Combat. You can move at full speed while tracking and gain a +4 sacred bonus to all Survival checks for up to an hour per caster level.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

MinusInnocence wrote:

Re: druid spells, there is a spell that might be helpful for Argus later. If the Circle gives directions from the Reflecting Pool to the effect of, "Follow our tracks from here to the Keep" or something vague like that, there is a spell called Deadeye's Lore in Ultimate Combat. You can move at full speed while tracking and gain a +4 sacred bonus to all Survival checks for up to an hour per caster level.

Press R1 to focus on Legendary Bear track.

Cronono
Cronono's picture

I'm taking Favored Enemy(Micah).

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

If you guys want your characters to start experimenting with drugs to be able to use bullet time, I'm more than happy to oblige.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

Instead of the characters, can you help the players experiment with drugs before firing off a bunch of bullets?

Cronono
Cronono's picture

I'm reminded of someone in particular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHeSC_Ws5Ic

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

One more quest, boys. Just have some goddamn faith!

OK. Are we about wrapped up here? What's the verdict on whether or not the party will visit the Baron of Mutton to talk to Werner? And if so, will they be renting rooms for the night and eat dinner there, or do one or both of those things at Carman's estate? Everybody can hash out what happens tomorrow when the sun comes up.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Darker

Thunk wants food. The nearest place serves unless someone convinces him otherwise. Change his mind.

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

Feruq wouldn't be going specifically to see Werner, but food sounds good and getting it there provides a hook for his player to use trying to get in with the cool kids.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Dalvar is going to see Parella and Haldelar.

He'll take a room at the Baron of Mutton. Carman'll probably murder us all in our sleep if he's got us under his roof at the same time as the Count.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

deadDMwalking
deadDMwalking's picture

Argus is in debt up to his eyeballs. He'll help out at Carman's and sleep with the horses.

Cronono
Cronono's picture
MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

Cronono wrote:

Just in case you guys didn't see it:

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pathfinder-10th-anniversary-books?hmb_source=humble_home&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_1_layout_index_1_layout_type_twos_tile_index_2

Kudos for sharing that link. I saw something about it last night but was already on my way to bed. $18 is a pretty damn good deal for that collection.

I figured we would expedite the situation with the horses and just have Argus settle that transaction when he visits Nafton. It wouldn't be out of the question for him to crash at Carman's after it's all said and done; one Hero is easier to accommodate than the whole party, after all. Or he could even offer his aid after-hours at the stables in exchange for a roof over his head for the night. Either way, his broke ass won't have to worry about where he'll sleep.

So. Argus has Puck, of course. There's no reason to assume he didn't snag a military saddle as well as a bit and bridle for him, either. Because the party now has possession of not one but two mules, there is no compelling reason for Dalvar and Feruq to take a heavy horse. It makes sense for both Jugg and Thunk to do so, since they both weigh quite a bit more than the two humans and usually carry way more stuff. I was operating under the assumption thus far that Dalvar and Feruq probably picked light warhorses; the difference is between the horses having Endurance and Light Armor Proficiency (which is why the warhorses are wearing chain shirt barding). Lyntern is also riding a light warhorse.

If this is correct, the party has one heavy horse, four light horses and one light warhorse to dump on the market; one set of chain shirt barding; six military saddles and six bits and bridles, as well as 300gp in other assorted gear related to animal husbandry.

When adjusting the value of saddles, barding, bits and bridles and other sundry equipment for 50% asking price, we come to a total of 726gp. The horses are in relatively good condition, even considering their harrowing ordeal at the Keep, so they haven't depreciated in value (similar to art objects, jewelry or other trade goods). Carman will bump the price up to 750gp if he can take them off the party's hands ASAP. This is more than fair, by Argus' estimation.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

Thunk is a treasure.

The only concern I'll voice about the horses is that we tend to push our mounts a lot, and having Endurance might be beneficial. Other than pointing that out, I'm good with whatever we decide.

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

If you opt for a light horse instead, you'll be adding 235gp to the haul for either or each of you (50% the value of a suit of barding plus 35gp price difference between a light horse and a light warhorse). If one of you chooses the remaining heavy horse instead, that will cost you 90gp. Unlike in v3.5, there is no reason not to choose a heavy horse when given the opportunity to do so; they aren't slower or anything, they're just light horses with the Advanced template (+4 to every stat except Intelligence and +2 natural armor), which is why they cost 125gp more.

The tradeoff for a light warhorse is that they are considered proficient in their natural attacks which also do more damage. These specimens in particular were trained to wear armor, so you're looking at a +4 bonus to AC. On the other hand, barding isn't weightless, so they're more likely to be encumbered. The idea here is that Dalvar and Feruq don't weigh much of anything as far as riders go, though, so they didn't need heavy horses like Jugg and Thunk did.

Of course, neither Dalvar nor Feruq has any experience riding an animal into battle. But if they did so, they would receive a +2 bonus to the check by virtue of the military saddles. So even if they dismount in a round or two after initiative is rolled, their chances of surviving increase dramatically; their horses won't run away or do anything stupid and are actually pretty good at defending themselves. If you get attacked when you're riding a light horse, especially if you don't know how to tell it what to do you're basically going to want to dismount as early in the combat as possible.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

deadDMwalking
deadDMwalking's picture

Maybe take the warhorses but sell the barding? The fact that they're less likely to bolt if they take damage is a big plus, and honestly if they get into combat the boarding probably won't save them.

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

These are all good options. I will break down the prices here for ease of reference so everyone will know what their choices are.

Heavy horse - 200gp.
Light horse - 75gp.
Light warhorse - 110gp.
Mule - 8gp.

The horses, as mentioned before, don't depreciate in value. You can ride them out of the stables after purchase and whether you take a lap around town before bringing it back or keep it for ten years, it's still worth just as much as when you bought it. Adventuring gear, weapons and armor and magic items don't work the same way, but pretty much everything else does - trade goods, art objects, gemstones, etc. You don't have to take a 50% hit when reselling these things or living creatures. Moving on:

Military saddle - 20gp.
Pack saddle - 5gp.
Bit & bridle - 2gp.
Chain shirt barding - 400gp.

The above reflects the market value, not the resell price; which would be 50% for each item. You have four light horses, four light warhorses and 1 heavy horse, as well as the two mules (one of which is Bunny and is obviously not for sale). From the outside looking in, you PROBABLY don't need both mules, but you can graze them without incident in most places aboveground; they will descend underground when prompted without complaint; and you will only make about ten bucks when selling the other one. If you keep both, it doubles your carrying capacity for loot. You could probably clear out everything not bolted down from a dungeon if you have two mules and Thunk with you.

Ignore this
I rolled 3d4, the result is 3, 2, 4 = 9.
I rolled 1d6, the result is 2 = 2.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Talanall
Talanall's picture

As long as everyone is mounted (and hence, able to move faster when we're trying to get from venue to venue) Dalvar has no preferences about what to keep or sell. He was planning to take a light warhorse, just because those animals are well-trained in terms of not doing anything weird in the middle of a fight. I don't think he's planning to fight from horseback on purpose, but the ability to induce his mount to go into strange or upsetting circumstances is pretty useful, and if you're traipsing through monster-infested wilderness you don't always get to choose whether to dismount before you fight. But if everyone traveling in the group isn't mounted, there's really no reason to bother. Thunk can travel as fast as Bunny and the other mule (assuming we keep it) because he's a barbarian, I guess, but the rest of the Heroes are slow enough that they're going to be delaying everyone else if they aren't mounted.

The notion of keeping the additional mule is agreeable to both him and me. We've already experienced at least one instance where we looted so much stuff off of our slain foes that we couldn't possibly carry all of it, and we've been showing what I think is remarkable restraint about not killing and subsequently robbing the corpses of everyone we possibly could.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

deadDMwalking
deadDMwalking's picture

Okay - Everyone is getting a light warhorse if we can swing it, with Thunk getting the Heavy Horse (it may not matter, but if he's unconscious, it'll be nice that we don't have to leave him behind). We're selling the barding because we want to go faster, and the movement penalty for barding doesn't suit our purposes at the moment. I'm assuming we'll need an extra for someone that is going to join our group - it happens every time we stop for 6+ hours, so it'll happen again. How many people are we right now (before the +1)?

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Is there a movement penalty for the barding? It's just light armor.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

The barding weighs 50lbs, and the saddle plus the bit and bridle weigh over 30lbs more than that. That leaves less than 150lbs before the horse is encumbered; Dalvar probably falls under that that threshold, but not Feruq, and certainly not when you count the gear he carries with him.

However, an encumbered horse still moves 5' faster per round than an unencumbered human. And when the mules (which have a speed of 40') are encumbered, they will be moving slower than that. I don't see any compelling reason to reduce a light warhorse's AC by 4 just to keep it above the medium load threshold, but your mileage may vary.

Re: how many characters you have in your party right now, Jugg is still technically on the team. That makes six, if you include Werner (who you aren't sure is joining the party or not but may have his own horse already). If you're thinking that the more animals you have at your disposal, the better, that may be true; but it's also more to keep track of. Anywhere you stop where you have to leave them behind, it will cost you twice as much money to do so. Maybe it's not very much cash in the long term, but Argus is 100% broke right now so maybe that's not a decision he should be making for the rest of the party.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

I agree that we should keep the mule and that everyone should get a light warhorse, with Thunk getting the heavy horse.

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

Oh, Jugg and Thunk already have heavy horses. That's why there's only one left to decide what to do with. So Argus has Puck, Dalvar and Feruq take two of the light warhorses and keep the barding, Jugg and Thunk are each riding a heavy horse and you sell the rest.

OK, so it turns out I made a miscalculation in my earlier cost breakdown. The party sells a set of barding equivalent to a chain shirt, six military saddles, six bridles, a heavy horse, a light warhorse, four light horses and 300gp of miscellaneous gear for a grand total of 1,026gp. This comes out to 256gp and 5sp each for Argus, Dalvar, Feruq and Thunk.

Sound good?

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

deadDMwalking
deadDMwalking's picture

Good to me.

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

Right on. I've updated everyone's sheet to reflect the sale and also to add your mounts, which previously had gone unrecorded for most characters (including adding Bunny back to Dalvar's sheet, where he belongs). The XP & GP sticky has also been updated to reflect that the party is holding a second mule as communal property.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Talanall
Talanall's picture

MinusInnocence wrote:

The barding weighs 50lbs, and the saddle plus the bit and bridle weigh over 30lbs more than that. That leaves less than 150lbs before the horse is encumbered; Dalvar probably falls under that that threshold, but not Feruq, and certainly not when you count the gear he carries with him.

Dalvar weighs 136 lbs. before you account for his gear, which tips the scales at 21 lbs. So he represents a total burden of 157 lbs, which he really isn't in a position to reduce by very much because almost all of his gear weight represents his handy haversack and his weaponry, which he keeps on him. He'll just relinquish his horse's barding. I think it's fair to let the entire party have shares in that.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

Okie dokie. I know @Fixxxer had said something earlier about maybe selling his barding, too. What's the final verdict on this before we move on? For context: each mule can carry almost 260lbs before hitting Medium load and Puck, the horse Argus attracted with his feminine wiles, can carry 228lbs before going over. The heavy horses Jugg and Think ride aren't encumbered until they hit 400lbs.

If Argus stows his pack on the party's mule, he should probably be able to ride at full speed with no issues? So selling the barding will basically ensure the party is riding as fast as possible (4mph without hustling). On the other hand, it means your horse's AC drops by 4. That makes me happy, but probably not anyone else.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

Feruq doesn't really care about the barding. The group hasn't (as of yet) had their mounts killed from under them, but we have had situations where we've needed to push for speed. If anyone who can use the barding from his horse would like it, it's theirs. If not, he's in favor of selling it for community funds.

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

All right. We'll go ahead and assume both sets of barding are being unloaded at Nafton's. Each one costs 400gp, so selling them both at half price obviously improves each character's share by 100gp. So instead of 256gp and 5sp it's 356.5 for Argus, Dalvar, Feruq and Thunk. I'll leave it up to @deadDMwalking to determine how much he pays Jugg, if anything, toward his debt thus far when they see him again at Kuiper's place; but 350gp would make a nice dent in what he owes and still leave him with some pocket change.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

deadDMwalking
deadDMwalking's picture

I will do that. Obviously I can't give it to him until I see him, but if you're tracking it, I'd appreciate you keeping it separate.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Once Dalvar says his goodbyes to Haldelar and Parella, he's going to go see Dirkaster.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

Feruq is currently working the room to figure out what some of the local merchants who deal in magic items might have to offer. According to the rules for settlements laid out in the Gamemastery Guide, Milborne (like any other settlement) has a 75% chance of having any specific magic item available for purchase up to the "base value" listed in its stat block (in this case, 1,400gp). Beyond that, there are a handful of other items up for grabs that exceed this value. It takes him 4 hours to compile his list, which I assume he will share with interested parties tomorrow morning. In the meantime, I will be deducting 2gp and 5sp each for Dalvar, Feruq and Thunk to cover dinner and lodgings, which includes a private room with a lock on the door and a hot bath and breakfast in the morning.

Random
I rolled 1d4, the result is 4 = 4.
I rolled 1d100, the result is 75 = 75.
I rolled 1d4, the result is 4 = 4.
I rolled 1d100, the result is 24 = 24.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

Nothing to see here. Keep scrolling!

Random
I rolled 1d3, the result is 3 = 3.
I rolled 1d3, the result is 1 = 1.
I rolled 1d12, the result is 7 = 7.
I rolled 1d12, the result is 9 = 9.
I rolled 1d100, the result is 85 = 85.
I rolled 1d100, the result is 68 = 68.
I rolled 1d100, the result is 18 = 18.
I rolled 1d100, the result is 40 = 40.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

All right. The magic items available for purchase when the shops and owners open their doors tomorrow morning are as follows.

Amulet of natural armor +1 (2,000gp), amulet of teamwork (4,000gp), crown of blasting, minor (6,480gp), handy haversack (2,000gp), potion of endure elements (50gp), and a ring of sustenance (2.500gp).

The amulet of teamwork is a (heavily) modified version of an item that first appeared in v3.5. When the wearer uses the aid another action, the bonus granted to his ally increases from +2 to +4. Similarly, when flanking, the wearer and any allies he is currently flanking with gain a +4 instead of a +2 bonus on attack rolls. Finally, once per day the wearer can use the amulet to grant himself and an ally a +2 competence bonus to AC.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Talanall
Talanall's picture

If Feruq shares this information, Dalvar will purchase the ring. He doesn't want it badly enough to get into a bidding war, but it's actually pretty high up his list of desired gear.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Fixxxer
Fixxxer's picture

Feruq will share the information with the others in the morning. I'm waiting on a PM reply before I can tell whether or not Feruq can afford the amulet of teamwork or whether he's a little short, but if he can afford it, he intends to purchase it.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Then I guess Dalvar's buying the ring. I can't imagine Thunk deliberately purchasing something that would make it unnecessary for him to eat, because that's one of his favorite things in the whole wide world. And Argus is flat broke.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

Darker

I was thinking that as well. Thunk might buy the ring, but he would still eat and sleep the same. Maybe more.

MinusInnocence
MinusInnocence's picture

Okie dokie. Do we think everyone is just about done with IC stuff for the night? I can post an update for Werner about what he talks about with Barthelew in this thread.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

Cronono
Cronono's picture

That depends on how strongly people feel about potatoes.

Also, yes.

Darker

Thunk will eat his fill of all freely offered food. So, yes, we can move on.

Talanall
Talanall's picture

Unless there's some kind of major opportunity for Dalvar to slaughter the entire town of Milborne and use their deaths to fuel the creation of a phylactery, so that he can continue his existence for eternity as a lich, free of the degradation of further bodily urges to eat, sleep, defecate, and copulate, I suppose there really is no point in delaying further.

Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten,
mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold

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